Curse

Oh a GW forum · Oct 30, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

I'm editing this to more clearly outline the problems with insignias and why they have served absolutely no benefiet to any player who wants to buy pve armor. In fact, all they have done is complicate the process of buying armor, if only slightly. My orignial post was more of a rant, but I'll leave it anyways, at the bottom, for reference purposes I guess. I am actually attempting to make this post constructive rather than an outlet for my distaste and annoyance with the system, and maybe to shut up the cheerleaders waving their "GO ANET" palm palms around here.

Taken from Guildwars.com, the official website for the game, under the updates sections for the 10/25 update. (and I'm not trying to nit-pick here, rather I'm just trying to validate my points by directly citing them.)

Quote:

* New armor crafted in Elona or through the PvP Equipment panel can contain swappable insignias, which provide the same types of bonuses that previously were permanent parts of the armor, plus new bonuses that are being introduced with Nightfall.
* With the use of armor insignias, you can now mix and match different armor bonuses with different armor appearances. Additionally, the use of insignias simplifies the process of creating armor with the PvP Equipment panel because you can choose the armor appearance and bonus separately.
* Outside of the PvP Equipment panel, you can only place an insignia on a piece of armor if that armor has a blank insignia slot. Certain types of armor crafted in Elona include blank insignia slots.
* Like other types of armor upgrades, insignias must be unlocked on your account before you can use them in the PvP Equipment panel. Because some insignias are replacements for bonuses that used to be inherent properties of PvP armor, those insignias are already unlocked on your account.
* Because insignias allow you to place bonuses on certain types of headgear that could not receive bonuses in the past, some existing high-end headgear from Tyria and Cantha is being updated with this build to include new bonuses.

We are not talking about pvp armor here, so disregard that for a second. Here is what anet thinks is good about the system that should affect pve.

Quote:

With the use of armor insignias, you can now mix and match different armor bonuses with different armor appearances.

Oh-my-gawd. You mean we can have different peices of armor, that not only look different, but give differnet bonuses?? Oh wait, this was possible and commonly done since prophecies. So, insignias haven't really changed anything in that aspect...

Now, what we could benefit from here, is updating old armor we bought way back when, that we really like the appearence of, but want to change the armor bonus. Now THAT would be useful, would it not? Woot go insignias!!!

Quote:

New armor crafted in Elona or...

o... You can't use insignias on any armor crafted in cantha, tyria, or the fissure of woe. Ok then, well at least insignias will revolutionize the way we use our new armor and all the armor we will craft in the future, right? Let us not look back upon the failures of the past, but rather foward, to a bring new future. Well, the problem lies in the following statement which is very misleading.

Quote:

New armor crafted in Elona or through the PvP Equipment panel can contain swappable insignias, which provide the same types of bonuses that previously were permanent parts of the armor, plus new bonuses that are being introduced with Nightfall.

Sure, insignias are swappable, you can swap them all over the place, if you don't mind destroying your armor 40% of the time. Unless you don't mind replacing that 15K chest peice to grab that radiant insigia, then they are NOT swappable, and might as well remain fixed components of the armor.

So, this takes us back to square one. We can't change old armor, and we can't freely change the armor bonus of new armor with destroying parts of it.
Actually, I'm wrong. This takes us back FARTHER than step 1, because we now have to, in addition to buying the armor, buy the insignias which are conviently part of a supply and demand market. Lovely! Well all know that highly prized runes/mods/upgrades in a supply/demand market are dirt cheap right?

So, what are the advantages of insignias again?

Ok, enough sarcasm and dissent. Here is what needs to be done if pve wants to see any benefiet from this system.

1) Update armor to have a 0% chance of breaking when salvaging components from it. It's customized, you paid for it, it doesn't effect the economy, there is no valid arguement against this. Period.

2) Update system to encompass old armor from C1 and C2. Find a way to make it so you have to buy nightfall to do it if thats so important to anet, I don't care... but it's simply ridiculous to split the game in half like this where there are completely different systems of armor depending upon when you bought the game. We need some form of consistancy here.

3) Creat a crafter that will create any insignia compitable with your profession, AT A FIXED PRICE. Again, there is no valid arguement against this. These bonuses used to be FREE, don't give me your crack-pot economic theories about how the game will explode.

Either fix the system, or scap it. It was fine in faction, but if you want to try and improve upon perfection, try not to actually make things worse, ok Anet?

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Original rant

Quote:

I really don't see how anything about them is convienent at all... If I could actually salvage them off my old armor (without friggen destroying it) and swap them around, then yea they'd be great... but I can't even use them at all with armor for other campaigns, and even if I buy armor in Elona that has an empty slot, I have to go waste time spamming "WTB X INSIGNIA!", or just hope someone sold what I need to the rune trader...

All this for... what exactly? I'd rather just go buy armor from chapter 1 or 2. This system is just clumbsy and ridiculously limited, and definately was not thought out. I have shelled out $150 so far to Anet on these games, why the hell can't they make things compatible with eachother? Is it SO hard to just add an NPC that can craft/salvage them off armor for you in Elona if they want to make sure people have to buy nightfall to take advantage of it?

The whole system is completely half-assed, and it's a friggen disgrace.

and yea I'm refering to pve armor, any pvpers who want to flame me just go back to hitting on femal avatars at RA.

Elruid · Oct 30, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Yeah, I agree. It took me a while to realize that there no longer is ANY armor with innate mods. It's all just blank and you gotta fill in them yourself. Why?

Factions did it as it should have been, and should still be.
For my Elonian Necromancer I just went to Kaineng to buy armor.
For my Paragon, different deal altogether. The armor is blank.
It has nothing to it. I have to go scour the valleys and fields or the rune trader, if it actually had any useful insignias than just +15 AL vs Cold damage for Ranger armor.
So far it seems most people will be forced to wear downgraded armor that costs still the same as the previous Chapters' armors.
Only the lucky and rich will be able to buy insignias they want.
I just hope that won't come true, I don't want to see some monk insignias cost 12k at the trader like their runes used to. Not to mention the runes of attunement and such.

All in all, this whole insignia business sounds like Socketing in Diablo2 and soon to come The Burning Crusade, a grind in essence.

How to improve:
A. Either offer Factions type of armor deals at the crafter.
B. Either increase the drop rate of Insignias and why not all runes while at it to lower their prices, they shouldn't be luxury items in my opinion.
C. Either give the players an Insignia trader so they can at least not have to clickety click and scroll the rune trader who is so full of stuff already with no way to sort the browsing.

Skyy High · Oct 30, 2006, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Runes are cheap as hell already; look at the attunements and the reduction runes. They're brand new and they already sell to the trader for about 150g. I imagine that the prices for insignias should go down substantially after a while.

Clone · Oct 30, 2006, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elruid

Only the lucky and rich will be able to buy insignias they want.

This appears to be the new way of Guild Wars. Its the same with the bonus to your salvage ability with treasure hunter / wisdom titles. I would certianly say that 21% better salvaging is a real advantage, even debatable on wether its an advantage over players. I certainly don't have the 6,000,000g to spend on keys to get there, nor would many casual players. As with that and the armor upgrades, advantages are now given to those who spend hours grinding for them.

The Real Roy Keane · Oct 30, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Just give it a while, I'm sure you'll get used to it.

Stemnin · Oct 30, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Eventually the traders will have them so masses can buy from, until then, catch me in the realm of Oblivion if you can muhahahha

Wtf Its A Monk · Oct 30, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Runes are cheap as hell already; look at the attunements and the reduction runes. They're brand new and they already sell to the trader for about 150g. I imagine that the prices for insignias should go down substantially after a while.

its not the price that is the problem it is that they are never in stock. i honestly think that the armor system in factions was much better but i guess i will just have to wait and see how this pans out.

The Muffen Man · Oct 30, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

I must agree the insignia thing is one crazy arsed mess. The way they had it in faction was the perfect solution any style any stats one stop shop for all your armor needs. Only the lucky ones in Elona will have porper armor for months the rest will have no stats besides the base that comes with the armor.
STUPID, STUPID STUPID ANET

greyf0x_f0x · Oct 30, 2006, 02:06 PM // 14:06

*sigh* Just wait a week people, the rune trader will be flooded with cheap insignias. Heck even most of the core class runes are all sold out at the minute, simply because so many people are creating new sets of armour. In time, the dust will settle, the economy will stabalise, and people will realise the insignia system is a boon. It allows flexibility of armour within each set. If you decide you don't want your +HP set, simple, buy a new set of insignias and overwrite the old ones.

Now all we need is an inscriptions and weapon mod trader, and we're set!

Pkest · Oct 30, 2006, 02:18 PM // 14:18

insignias should be sold by armorers so you can actually build armor you want like previous chapters. But if they aren't going to upgrade the old tyrian skins to accept insignias (which is what people wanted to change the stats of) then the Factions system is better. Insignia removal and replacement should not risk the armor either or else we will still need multiple sets in order to reliably change setups for different builds.

unienaule · Oct 30, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Oh noes! Only those who planned ahead and bought minor runes before nightfall came out have them! H4xors! In case you haven't noticed, right now is a BAD TIME to judge the effectiveness of insignias, since minor vigor is over 1k, and you can't get a useful minor rune to save your life. That's absolutely ridiculous. Settle down, and wait for a while before you say OMFG TEH SUCK.

gene terrodon · Oct 30, 2006, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Another, Anet is stupid, what were they thinking thread.

The game is not even a week old.
It will take some time for inventory to build and then there will not be an issue.
After sitting in your chair and playing for 70 of the possible 72 hours and complaining that there is not enough of this or that, get some sleep take a shower and relax.
Remember, you are in the minority, once the majority of the community catches up, there will not be any supply issues.
Patience is a virtue.

mqstout · Oct 30, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Only the lucky and rich will be able to buy insignias they want.

Quote:

Insignias should be sold by armorers so you can actually build armor you want like previous chapters.

Yeah, insignia on armor is one of the worst things yet done in Guild Wars. There are 10 classes in the game now. And lots of permutations for each class. How is one supposed to unlock these for use, let alone try to collect a set to use on their armor when they buy it?

Moreso since there isn't an insignia trader.

What was so terribly wrong with the way it worked in Factions? That worked really well.

All weekend and I saw one insignia drop, for a wildly different job. None of my friends playing saw any drop.

Quote:

Eventually the traders will have them so masses can buy from

As if armor weren't already expensive enough (on top of skills), especially since so many of the rare materials in the game can't be crafted but only rarely salvage or drop. I wish they'd stop making the game cater to the people who farm their lives away andor buy gold.

Zehnchu · Oct 30, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Rune’s and insignia are two different things who cares if anyone bought minor runes before nightfall they still are abundant supply other then the few new runes. I like the new armor options but I really dislike they way they implemented it. Dervish and Pargons are at a disadvantage when it comes to armor, for energy they need Rune of attunements or Radiant insignia. So I have to agree the with others even though I like the armor options to add what mods I want, but as is stand they didn’t stock insignia’s so it sucks

Mr_T_bot · Oct 30, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

This insignia stuff for armor is terrible. Factions armor team had it right. Different collectors and armorers with every armor bonus for each look of armor.

LadyNilene · Oct 30, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I agree that factions had the better idea providing the same designs with different mods, but I don't think the Nightfalls one is really that bad, maybe because I easily found two Survivor Mods for my armor (I am certain that using a Superior Identifying kit gives you better results). woo! lol but really...time will definitely increase the insignias and people will learn to live with it.

TimeCatalyst · Oct 30, 2006, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I think the idea of insignias is really good, but the problem comes with having blank armor at the crafters. I think the crafters should continue to give "built-in" stats that can be over written with other insignias later on.

Personally, I like this because if I find a better way to play a class, I don't have to spend 1500p to re-craft the piece with different effects. I can just buy/salvage the insignia now. Even better for 15k gear.

So yeah, I'm gonna fall into the category of "Good idea, implemented poorly"

Oh, and kinda off-topic: I don't know if I like how all new gear comes gray. It's kind of depressing to see an "ocean of gray" in each city early in the game. Nobody wants to waste dye on gear that's not a 1,500p set. At least, I know I don't and that seems to be the majority of players' positions based on my observations this weekend.

Grimarren · Oct 30, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

I don't get why everyone is complaining about armor prices... Unless you're going for the 15k armor (which is meant to be a gold sink), you shouldn't have any problems upgrading your armor whenever the next best set becomes available.

I will agree wholeheartedly with the insignia complaint. Although I do think that it's a nift feature, it has it's down points. Especially when you put both a rune and an insignia into an armor piece, then want to take them back out to put them into another piece with better armor. Unless you're lucky, you'll only get one of the two mods. With the Factions system, you only have to worry about your rune since the insignia stats are part of the base armor stats.

We'll just have to wait and see how things pan out once the arms race is over.

Kyosuke · Oct 30, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

Waaaaaaah! I have to work for everything now... Waaaaah! My armor isn't pre-equiped! Waaaaah! I have to go farm! Waaaaaah! I can't farm solo anymore against trolls Waaaaaah! AI.....

Seriously people, just adjust. It's a game. It would be seriously boring as shit if they kept everything the same always. Change is what makes a game like this keep going on for a long time. If you can't handle that, then find another game to play. If you like consistancy go play CS or some FPS like that, don't waste your time on some RPG that is gong to be always changing. Adapt, grown learn. and stop whining, it does no good and your whining won't change anything.

On the actual topic, all the new stuff is common. As others have said wait a week ro 2 and it'll all be there. It's just like when Runes ran out when Factions first came out or when Steel and stuff ran out for awhile.. a week or two later and all was back to normal.. and all the bitching was wasted.

Kiros37100 · Oct 30, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

"The irony of the human mind is that it hates change but loves variety." - Maarten Laene